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Mythras Core Book Rule Questions

Re: Mythras Core Book Rule Questions

Postby Pete » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:45 pm

Sable Wyvern wrote:Why should anyone immediately assume that minimums and maximums for point buy are the same as for rolling?

Why should you not? There are no other rules for point buying other than those three bullet points, thus the implicit and logical interpretation is that the values are equivalent to what can be rolled on the dice. I'll back that up with the objective fact that as Loz said, this is the first time (I recall) that this has ever been brought up in over five years the rules have existed. In fact I even went back and checked the original packs we sent out to the various playtest groups and the wording is identical.

Not specifying strict numerical maximums and minimums was a deliberate design decision. First of all RQ/Mythras allows you to play almost any creature and adding a column to every stat block to print out numbers which can be easily mentally calculated is superfluous. Secondly, characteristics can be raised or lowered by things like magic, being converted into undead and so on, so stating absolute max-min values may cause confusion. Thirdly it might have caused problems down the line when we foresaw supplements whose (demi)human characteristic ranges contradict the core rules.

Personally I don't see it as a problem. The official 'interpretation' is that the min-max values are the same as the dice values. As always however, feel free to house rule as desired; YMMV. ;)
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Re: Mythras Core Book Rule Questions

Postby Sable Wyvern » Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:19 pm

Pete wrote:
Sable Wyvern wrote:Why should anyone immediately assume that minimums and maximums for point buy are the same as for rolling?

Why should you not?


On first read through? Because you know hardly anything about the game or the author's intent at this point and the reason you're reading it is to find these things out. The fewer hard mechanical details you need to assume or infer from other sources, the better.

There are no other rules for point buying other than those three bullet points, thus the implicit and logical interpretation is that the values are equivalent to what can be rolled on the dice. I'll back that up with the objective fact that as Loz said, this is the first time (I recall) that this has ever been brought up in over five years the rules have existed. In fact I even went back and checked the original packs we sent out to the various playtest groups and the wording is identical.

Not specifying strict numerical maximums and minimums was a deliberate design decision. First of all RQ/Mythras allows you to play almost any creature and adding a column to every stat block to print out numbers which can be easily mentally calculated is superfluous. Secondly, characteristics can be raised or lowered by things like magic, being converted into undead and so on, so stating absolute max-min values may cause confusion. Thirdly it might have caused problems down the line when we foresaw supplements whose (demi)human characteristic ranges contradict the core rules.

Personally I don't see it as a problem. The official 'interpretation' is that the min-max values are the same as the dice values. As always however, feel free to house rule as desired; YMMV. ;)


I agree it's reasonably easy to reach the correct conclusion with a small amount of effort and a bit of common sense. I managed to work it out, and RQ6 was my first ever real exposure to RQ, so I had no preconceived ideas to fall back on and I don't recall it ever being a major stumbling block. I just happen to also think it's the sort of thing that would be better to be made explicit than not. Once sentence stating that, when buying stats, the maximums and minimums are same as they would be if you were rolling, should cover it.

The main reason I bothered giving my 2c at all though, is really only because I consider it quite disingenous for someone to suggest that actually stating the rules on maximum and minimum stat values is equivalent to setting aside space to explain the function of a pencil.
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Re: Mythras Core Book Rule Questions

Postby Moldof » Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:25 am

nclarke wrote:TBH I think this 'complaint' is a little ingenuous.


There's been some other references to an initial "complaint".

I'm not sure if these are referring to my initial post that sparked this. That wasn't a complaint, though. I actually asked if someone knew where the info was on the assumption that I had just missed it.

It's definitely a fair question/observation, though. The rules specifically say "Characteristics cannot be lower than the minimum value or greater than maximum value of that characteristic". These values clearly matter in the point build character creation. Ignoring them is perfectly fine, but that would be a house rule. So acting like further rules clarity is pointless because a of a particular house rule of a certain group brings no added value to the conversation.

I actually thought we had quoted the characteristic ranges for humans, but it seems we didn't. It can be inferred from the dice values, but that isn't ideal especially for newcomers to the game, so it is an oversight. Mind you, it's an oversight that's existed since we released RQ6, and this is the first time, to my knowledge, that anyone's raised it - so good spot, Moldof


Cool. Thanks for the guidance, Loz. Will this be something that gets added into the errata list?
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Re: Mythras Core Book Rule Questions

Postby loz » Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:03 am

Cool. Thanks for the guidance, Loz. Will this be something that gets added into the errata list?


Most likely not, until we release any heavy revisions to Mythras - which isn't going to be for some time. It isn't a mistake or correction that needs to be explicitly called out, but it's noted for consideration for the future.
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Re: Mythras Core Book Rule Questions

Postby nclarke » Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:33 am

What's interesting is the split between folks who insist that something be written down in concrete and those for whom the roleplay and the game are the thing. The min-max crew are obviously in for the win (or to be clear their players are) with thier 'it doesn't say I can't' attitude and the others who seem to be perfectly capable of saying 'No' to players who wish to game the rules.
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Re: Mythras Core Book Rule Questions

Postby Sable Wyvern » Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:32 am

Seriously? First, people who suggest maybe the rules could be clearer in this instance are equivalent to people who are so simple-minded they probably don't understand how to use a pencil. Now they're weak-willed GMs who can't control their disruptive players and/or who care more about the written text than playing the game.

How about, someone noticed something that seems to be an oversight, and mentioned it. I don't get the need to attack them for it.
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Re: Mythras Core Book Rule Questions

Postby loz » Sun Sep 25, 2016 11:18 am

Right, this is starting to get unpleasant, so the subject of characteristic minimums/maximums, oversights, etc etc etc is now CLOSED. I don't want to lock the thread, but I will if the subject is raised again.

So, let's move on.

Thank you.
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Re: Mythras Core Book Rule Questions

Postby Matt_E » Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:46 pm

I officially apologize for my part in this. I can be too sharp sometimes.
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Re: Mythras Core Book Rule Questions

Postby Sable Wyvern » Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:03 am

I, too, could have been a little less uptight, and more charitable in my reading of the posts I was replying to.
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