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Passions and Luck points

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Passions and Luck points

Postby Icefield » Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:25 pm

Anyone ever try using Passions like this?

Passion: I hates Orcs

GM: "I will give you a Luck point if you successfully start a fight with the Orc at the bar. If you don't I will take a Luck point."
Player: "Ok I walk over and start insulting his dirty Orc parents."
GM: "He gets up and pulls back his arm to punch you. One Luck point awarded."

Either way anyone know of any potential problems in doing this?
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Re: Passions and Luck points

Postby Belgath » Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:05 pm

I don't like pushing a player in one Direction or a another. I know that some of the player in are group would feel that they where being railroad If Force to act. But I would make them roll against there passion to see if he could maintain his composure and keep his mouth shut.
Last edited by Belgath on Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Passions and Luck points

Postby Matt_E » Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:54 am

I agree with Belgath. Passions are some of the most defining pieces of a character, and each has a score. Use it. If the Passion roll succeeds (may not feel like a success to the player!), then the character is expected to act accordingly.

To me, if this player refuses to play along, then you should warn her clearly that there will of course be karmic consequences, and ask if that changes her mind. If not, then quietly penalize, later--but not up front, like a threat or bargain, I suggest. How to do it would depend on the people involved, and the circumstances of your adventure.

I think someone mentioned giving a bonus Experience Point for good roleplaying; obviously this player would not get that bonus. If this were a regular part of your game, then the player would realize up front what was at stake. That may be a bit soft, though.

You could use the Passion to Augment all subsequent skill checks, except as a penalty, not a bonus. That may be a bit hard, though.

You could assign a penalty grade of Formidable to a subsequent check or checks, at a really important part in the adventure. Then that character could choose to burn a Luck Point.

You could make Luck Points not recharge when expected for that character.

Your approach has the advantage of being honest/clear up front, but I don't think good behavior at the table should feel like a deal to be struck, if you see what I mean. IMO the best way to handle it is to call time out and take the player aside (to avoid shaming in front of all), to remind her what the expectations are at your table.

All of this depends a lot on your players, and how thick their skins are. Even with good friends or scaly old players, you might be surprised by reactions that end up spoiling the fun... We have talked about this at length in a prior thread.
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Re: Passions and Luck points

Postby threedeesix » Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:56 am

I prefer to have Passions be an indicator as to how the character should react instead of how he has to. In the case described, the character could simply choose to not interact with the orc in any way. For example, ignore the orc if it tries to communicate with the party. However, if I as the GM thinks the situation warrants a greater interaction, I will request a Passion roll. On a successful roll, I inform the player that his character feels strongly about the current situation and should react in some way. In the case of the orc, the character may do anything from simply storm out of the tavern to pick a fight, again leaving the choice up to the player. If the character refuses to do anything at this point, I reduce the Passion from 1 to 1d4+1 points, as a Passion that doesn't have some influence on the character isn't a Passion at all. If the Passion roll fails, the character may react as desired with no penalty as a lower Passion isn't as strong and will not affect the character as often.

Conversely, if the player reacts per his Passion with NO prodding on my part, I will generally award from 1 to 1d4+1 points right there, as a reward for acting "in character", strengthening their Passion.

Finally, remember that with the GM's permission, the player may add 20% of his Passion to any skill that effects the situation at hand. In the case of the orc at the bar, maybe the character simply feels the need to humiliate the burly orc on an arm wrestling contest. In this case, I tell the player to add 20% of Hate Orcs to their Brawn skill.

Just some thoughts,

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Re: Passions and Luck points

Postby soltakss » Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:01 am

I wouldn't do it that way, personally.

What I might do would be to award a Luck Point if the PC went to start a fight with an orc at the bar, just because he is an orc. I wouldn't make the PC do something just because the PC has a Passion.

However, I might say "You have a Passion of Hates Orcs, but in every case where you have met Orcs you have been quiet and haven't roleplayed this. If you don't start playing the Passion then it will be reduced or removed". So, if the next encounter is with a party containing an Orc and the PC didn't demonstrate the Hates Orcs Passion, I might halve or remove the Hates Orcs passion as it clearly no longer applies.
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Re: Passions and Luck points

Postby Mach5RR » Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:08 pm

What you are describing is more like tagging aspects in the FATE RPG. But the difference there is you either have the aspect, or you don't. You are not invested in it at certain level (A person with a 5% Passion of "Hates Orcs" has a minor disliking compared to someone with a 95% who -really- does not like orcs). But FATE is structured around the give and take of FATE points, because having the GM tap your aspects is the only way to replenish your FATE pool. Not with RQ6/Mythras. How am I to differentiate between someone with a 5% Passion and a 95% Passion? If they need the luck point, they will start a fight with the Orc. If they don't need it, and they wish to avoid the fight, they will spend the luck point. You are getting the exact same result from them, even though they are invested at different levels. Not to mention, I don't know about yours, but my players are frikking weasels. Give them a method to replenish a previously in-game unreplenishable pool, and they'll start spamming it, investing in a selection of little passions to bother you about to score a Luck Point.

Don't forget a mechanic for tapping them into dealing with the orc is already baked in to their passion. From p. 124 "As an ability in its own right to drive choices, desires and emotional actions and responses":

GM: There is a group of Orcs, laughing at their table, while drinking. Sounds like they were telling some human joke.

Player: So? You said a group, I'll leave them to their Ale.

GM: You have a Passion of 98% "Hate Orcs", roll against that to let that joke stand.

Player: I, ahhh, got a 55. Can I be passive-aggressive to them?

Which brings me back to saying that players are frikking weasels. Because if you offer him a Luck point to do something inline with his 30% passion, he'll do it if needs the luck point. If he doesn't and you try to take the luck point, he's going to want to roll against his passion as per his passion rules to see if he has to do it, and insisting that a successful roll means he shouldn't be penalized a luck point.
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Re: Passions and Luck points

Postby loz » Sat Jul 09, 2016 3:53 pm

Very occasionally, I'll dole out an additional Luck Point if something truly remarkable happens, as it did in my Toronto Mythic Britain game. Three characters, in the same battle, rolled a critical success of 05. There were five characters in the party, and so I decided this was incredibly auspicious, and so granted them there and then an extra Luck Point each and created the Sacred Band miracle for them. But this was nothing to do with Passions, and everything to do with the luck of the dice. I wouldn't use Luck Points as a carrot for using a Passion; I find that characters gain far more reward from seeing how the story develops because they use a Passion rather than having to have some form of incentive.

We purposefully designed Mithras's Luck Points so that they wouldn't need to be a GM fiat currency, as the old Hero Points of Legend and MRQII were. This is why they're based on the character's POW, and why they replenish each session.
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Re: Passions and Luck points

Postby Jakob » Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:30 am

In principle, I kind of like the idea of the OP - I'm not sure if I would implement it that way ... personally, while I don't really like the ruleset of FATE (especially that sometimes, you have to juggle a dozen aspects at the table), the FATE point economy is one thing I tend to port to other systems (I used some elements of it for my Numenera campaign, which has a similar system already in place that doesn't go as far).
What I like about the "fiat currency" is that you always give the player the choice to act on an aspect/passion of the character. Neither GM nor dice dictate it, but there is still a clear rules mechanism that usually makes sure that aspects/passions do come into play from time to time. I'm a little bit reluctant to tell a player to just roll for a passion, because that actually can become a little pushy/railroading-lke. After all, as a GM, I can always push the player to another roll, until a passion roll is succesful. I actually consider the example in Luther Arkwright about the drinking habit of Anna Thames an example of bad GMing, because the GM seems to push until Anna's player finally fails a roll and starts drinking ... I understand that it is being given for the sake of the example, but in actual gaming, I would never behave like that as a GM - if Anna has just made a succesful roll to not drown her worries, than it is simply bad style to ask for another roll right away.
On the other hand, this can also happen with a "reward system" where the GM gives you something for giving in. So maybe it is more a matter of good/bad GMing and less one of the system used. Still, putting some "FATE light" into Mythras in such a way doesn't seem like a bad idea to me.
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Re: Passions and Luck points

Postby Icefield » Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:04 am

Thank you for those responses. I forgot to mention that I would remove the Numerical score of the passion if I used the FATE type compel.

Some things about the replies:
If you have no teeth in the passion system it is just a suggestion roll. "Hey you should do this." "Nah" "Ok well roll" "I failed the roll but, Nah" "Hmm ok. well moving on..." Seems like you would be better off not going there at all if the players are never open to input of this kind. I have a player like that and he will absolutely **** if you do anything that is within ten miles of what he perceives as stepping on his agency.

So given a Passion reduction or taking a Luck Point or some other Actual penalty exists, what it seems is going on is an action that is being prompted. Either way you will be telling the player to play the character by their passion. To me that means a compel is a compel

Another point is that in the games I have played with a FATE point type economy (as a player) I find that the GM interaction is greater and that's a good thing. It feels a lot more like we are working together (even when being compelled).

Since Loz talked about the use of Luck points and the sparse nature of how they are used in his games, I was wondering if the Luck Point Economy would act to make characters a bit more hearty without absolutely breaking the rules balance. Not talking about the feel so much with all due respect to the big guy there, but wondering if I can get a more epic feel to the player characters this way without getting into D&D-ish More HP more AP etc. As the rules stand the game plays to me like a bit of a character generation simulator because it's a lot of time to make characters but they die or get maimed easy.

"Though boys throw stones at Mythras Characters in sport, yet the Characters do not die in sport but in earnest. :)

Regardless you guys gave me great feedback and it's appreciated. I'm going to toss another little tweak in I was considering:

What about allowing Luck points to be used to shift a check difficulty one level?

I have run games where that is the point (Mortality and thus watch yer ***), but I have a different group of players currently, and as you know you go to the table with the group you have, not the group you wish for. Well at least for me that is the case haha.
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Re: Passions and Luck points

Postby hkokko » Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:58 am

Hmmm. There is this tendency of saying the game is deadly. It really has the possibility to be. Player characters in my group have not died in few dozens of games so far in the current campaign 'into the heart of darkness'. They have been captured as prisoners, fled enemy many times, avoided combat some times, hoarded their last healing spell for weeks and months (many many game sessions and fights) and so caused maiming to happen, watched the sometimes accompanying NPCs die horrible deaths, avoided the too strong enemy. They have very carefully reserved the use of luck points to change bad occasions to better ones. Deaths will come but so far they have sidestepped them. One of the players still has and refuses to change the PC character sheet from the old MRQ2 sheet (where we began the campaign) to RQ6 because it would be bad luck and would invite death and so we interpret the old names of the skills with new ones constantly.
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