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Passions and Luck points

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Re: Passions and Luck points

Postby Alistair_C » Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:37 am

Icefield wrote:As the rules stand the game plays to me like a bit of a character generation simulator because it's a lot of time to make characters but they die or get maimed easy.


I have to disagree our group has been playing RQ6 weekly since it was published firstly in a campaign based on the warhammer world and then for the last year in Mythic Britain, number of characters killed in that time = zero. Number of near deaths, epic fights and desperate combats - too many to count, the combat system may be deadly because combat is deadly! but only if you treat combat lightly, we as a group have a great deal of respect for combat - making sure it is the last option and if we have to fight making sure we use tactics to advantage ourselves.
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Re: Passions and Luck points

Postby Pete » Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:04 am

Icefield wrote:As the rules stand the game plays to me like a bit of a character generation simulator because it's a lot of time to make characters but they die or get maimed easy.

What's wrong with playing maimed characters? Some of my own characters have been maimed and I've thoroughly enjoyed playing them, despite their handicap. Let none forget noble Eomer the Silver Handed who saved Britain and sailed to Avalon with Merlin tending his broken body... Or Captain Ahappi, scourge of the Solkathi Sea, who has gone through three legs already - not counting the wooden ones! ;)
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Re: Passions and Luck points

Postby Dan True » Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:18 am

Alistair_C wrote:
Icefield wrote:As the rules stand the game plays to me like a bit of a character generation simulator because it's a lot of time to make characters but they die or get maimed easy.


I have to disagree our group has been playing RQ6 weekly since it was published firstly in a campaign based on the warhammer world and then for the last year in Mythic Britain, number of characters killed in that time = zero. Number of near deaths, epic fights and desperate combats - too many to count, the combat system may be deadly because combat is deadly! but only if you treat combat lightly, we as a group have a great deal of respect for combat - making sure it is the last option and if we have to fight making sure we use tactics to advantage ourselves.


I agree. Since MRQII I've only killed one character, and that was in a CON game - and the player played him very aggressively.

There have been more near-death experiences than I can count, but my players have always realised that they were in too deep when the luck points began to dwindle and then either retreated, acted very cautiously or found non-violent ways of ending the engagement by.

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Re: Passions and Luck points

Postby loz » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:22 am

I'm in the middle of playtesting the Saxons campaign and, in two adventures, I've been nastily impaled twice through the leg. Not for nothing am I known as Pierce the Unlucky!

I think that there's a perception that Mythras and RQ characters are inherently weak, or combat overly deadly, based on Hit Points and comparing those with weapon damage. Player creates his character, finds he has 5 HP in the head, sees a sword does 1d8, and immediately equates this with a very short lifespan. The reality of the combat mechanics are very different though, with many, many different ways of mitigating damage, surviving against better skilled or armed opponents, and even weathering maiming blows. As always, it's worth playing through combat as written first before reaching any conclusions about character fragility. Yes, Mythras combat can be bloody brutal; but the game offers a wide range of tools that, when used properly, ensure epic, intense, fun and rewarding combats.
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Re: Passions and Luck points

Postby Icefield » Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:00 am

OK let me amend that. To Players coming from D&D who are used to wading through yards of the 5-star monster hotel the game is not built to allow them to be dumb :)

Also in games like D&D as you live through more sessions you get the illusion of heartiness through an ever expanding hit point count that is countered somewhat invisibly by monsters and foes that go up in hit points with you while also acquiring burst dps and insta kill hits. They don't really get all that tougher, but they feel like they do.
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Re: Passions and Luck points

Postby Icefield » Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:19 am

[quote="loz"]I'm in the middle of playtesting the Saxons campaign and, in two adventures, I've been nastily impaled twice through the leg. Not for nothing am I known as Pierce the Unlucky!

I think that there's a perception that Mythras and RQ characters are inherently weak, or combat overly deadly, based on Hit Points and comparing those with weapon damage. Player creates his character, finds he has 5 HP in the head, sees a sword does 1d8, and immediately equates this with a very short lifespan. The reality of the combat mechanics are very different though, with many, many different ways of mitigating damage, surviving against better skilled or armed opponents, and even weathering maiming blows. As always, it's worth playing through combat as written first before reaching any conclusions about character fragility. Yes, Mythras combat can be bloody brutal; but the game offers a wide range of tools that, when used properly, ensure epic, intense, fun and rewarding combats.


Maybe we're doing it wrong, but we did lose a lot of characters in the first round of the game we played a couple of years back. One character lost a leg, two died in one fight. The only guy who didn't regularly almost die was in articulated plate, and that guy was unstoppable. After that I had to flush it from use by making it such a pain in the *** to acquire/use/maintain. I had a hard time keeping everyone on board with making new characters for the system. Someone complained that they had, "already filed my taxes this year," meaning that they didn't want to add up all the points for skills. Some of this is the effect of computer games where all of the mechanics are handled by the machine but all the freedom is gone as well.

Despite all of that I believe your system is the best Tabletop RPG ever made. I haven't played in a while so I'm a bit rusty, but for the upcoming game I was thinking about using the Passion/Luck system as I described in the OP as well as briefing the players on what to expect. I'm going to start a new thread on surviving in Mythras so I can pose my new questions.
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Re: Passions and Luck points

Postby Matt_E » Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:24 am

Icefield wrote:OK let me amend that. To Players coming from D&D who are used to wading through yards of the 5-star monster hotel the game is not built to allow them to be dumb :)

Also in games like D&D as you live through more sessions you get the illusion of heartiness through an ever expanding hit point count that is countered somewhat invisibly by monsters and foes that go up in hit points with you while also acquiring burst dps and insta kill hits. They don't really get all that tougher, but they feel like they do.


Yes, indeed. We have discussed this at length in a prior thread. The conclusion was that D&D characters seem nominally tougher, in that they hardly "get hurt" when a large pile of HP is managed as a resource, and there are no wounds or hit locations. However, after many sessions of play, RQ6 characters may end up seeming tougher, precisely because they can and do get hurt, and badly, yet they usually don't actually die.
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Re: Passions and Luck points

Postby raleel » Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:02 am

One of my players and I had a discussion about this in context with another game. I'd like to add in a couple other points

  • D&D (and MANY other systems) have no failure on defense. RQ has a relatively low amount of damage mitigation if you fail on defense. In D&D, you CAN'T fail on defense in most cases (spells being excluded here), so you get the full benefit. This compounds with AP spent on defense below.
  • This feeds into the "but I have X hit points and the weapon does Y damage".
  • Additionally, relatively few systems (and especially D&D) require you to spend a limited resource on defense during combat. I'm not talking about the "I take defensive action and get +2" sort of thing. In RQ, if you are not using a shield, your defense passively is abysmal. Even with a shield, you are very vulnerable to choose location shots.
  • In D&D, you have full efficiency until you are at 0. In RQ, you lose an arm, you might be functionally dead - or at least that is the perception.

There is a very real change that has to happen. I got to spend some time on this before my group played, so I was far better prepared. I took a shield and a spear. I armored up a few specific locations more than others. This allowed me to passive ward the less armored locations, and leave the armored ones unguarded, affording the flexibility of being able to not actively defend if I liked. Spear + Shield covers all the reach you like, so was unlikely to get crunched up on. Spear is a handy missile weapon. Shield has good special effects (bash is handy with spear, stun location can buy you a lot of time).

On the other hand, Luck Points go a long ways towards mitigating any actual deadly. I GMed for quite a bit and got one crit through. I had to roll a crit twice to do it. Otherwise I got "gifted" a reroll. One time I caught a guy without AP and headshotted him for a lot. Poof, wound mitigated to non-lethal. They have a pretty strong impact on my own game, because we don't play a lot and they refresh every session.
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Re: Passions and Luck points

Postby Matt_E » Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:13 pm

Raleel, if you feel that Luck Points have too much effect in your game, consider this: In my game, I have Luck Points refresh each adventure, not each session. (I have mentioned this before.)

Our sessions tend to be only ~3 hours each, and a typical scenario takes 3 or even 4 sessions to complete. If I were to give back those points so frequently, I feel my adventures would be too easy, and less fun.
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Re: Passions and Luck points

Postby raleel » Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:20 pm

Matt_E wrote:Raleel, if you feel that Luck Points have too much effect in your game, consider this: In my game, I have Luck Points refresh each adventure, not each session. (I have mentioned this before.)

Our sessions tend to be only ~3 hours each, and a typical scenario takes 3 or even 4 sessions to complete. If I were to give back those points so frequently, I feel my adventures would be too easy, and less fun.


I have considered it, but I think my group likes a more... um... heroic feel ;) I don't have enough cheese to handle all the whine.
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