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Mythras Core Book Rule Questions

Re: Mythras Core Book Rule Questions

Postby nclarke » Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:40 am

The only minimum I remember from the RQ6 core rules is the mention of SIZ8 as being a minimum. I don't remember any other minima being mentioned but the die ranges will give the answer.
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Re: Mythras Core Book Rule Questions

Postby Moldof » Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:41 pm

Yeah, I had come to the same conclusion. It just felt like I had to be overlooking it somewhere. Guess not.

From a book design perspective, the min/max limits should be clearly stated. It would require a negligible addition to the word count and make things simpler for the reader. As is, I think the initial response of people reading through that section will be to ask the question "What are those limits?", and then go looking for them to be stated somewhere. Then, after wasted time looking for them, they end up doing the math themselves via the dice ranges.

Simple clarity here would help eliminate the confusion and save the read some time.
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Re: Mythras Core Book Rule Questions

Postby Matt_E » Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:35 pm

I agree: Neither Mythras nor Mythras Imperative mentions the minimums or maximums for 3d6 or 2d6+6 (or any other set of dice). However, I would not necessarily expect these to be mentioned. I also would not expect directions on how best to use my pencil on my character sheet. ;-) It's very straightforward, and some things are not worth column space, IMO.
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Re: Mythras Core Book Rule Questions

Postby Sable Wyvern » Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:50 am

Matt_E wrote:I agree: Neither Mythras nor Mythras Imperative mentions the minimums or maximums for 3d6 or 2d6+6 (or any other set of dice). However, I would not necessarily expect these to be mentioned. I also would not expect directions on how best to use my pencil on my character sheet. ;-) It's very straightforward, and some things are not worth column space, IMO.


Why should anyone immediately assume that minimums and maximums for point buy are the same as for rolling? It seems reasonably likely that they will be, but there could be host of reasons why that's not the case.

As others have mentioned, you'll probably work out (or just decide to assume) that the minimums and maximums match those found when rolling dice, but why make people work to reach this conclusion? The fact is, the omission is an oversight, and it really should be there if the intent is for the rules to be clear and unambiguous.

Keep in mind also, at this point on the first read through, you don't even know if the values the dice provide for you initially are actually minimums or maximums either. Who's to say there isn't a rule coming up that lets you modify them outside of that range?
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Re: Mythras Core Book Rule Questions

Postby nclarke » Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:57 am

TBH I think this 'complaint' is a little ingenuous.
If someone wishes to have a very low characteristic then let them. The skills related to that characteristic will just be very poor and no amount of extra skill points via career etc will compensate for their rather foolish choice.

I can see someone placing a lot of points into combat related stats or perhaps characteristics for magical skills or even social skills but all that means is that the character will be a one trick pony and if the campaign doesn't involve that trick very much you'll have to deal with a whiney player who thought they were creating an uber-character and just screwed themselves over.

It's really down to talking to your players and setting some ground rules about the game before you start. If you don't want them to min-max their characters for one thing then tell them that the campaign will rely on rounded characters.
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Re: Mythras Core Book Rule Questions

Postby loz » Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:04 am

I actually thought we had quoted the characteristic ranges for humans, but it seems we didn't. It can be inferred from the dice values, but that isn't ideal especially for newcomers to the game, so it is an oversight. Mind you, it's an oversight that's existed since we released RQ6, and this is the first time, to my knowledge, that anyone's raised it - so good spot, Moldof.
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Re: Mythras Core Book Rule Questions

Postby Rubrum » Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:08 am

It would probably be simpler to write somewhere obvious that "maximums and minimums can be inferred by the dice results range shown in characteristics tables" (with one exemple) than to write those mins and maxes everywhere on all creatures.
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Re: Mythras Core Book Rule Questions

Postby nclarke » Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:12 am

The Mongoose RQ2 rules and Legend have maxima listed but not a minimum for any characteristic. Human maxima are given as 21 for all six characteristics. Points buy gives each point above 18 having a cost of 2 points.

It might have been this you were thinking of Loz.
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Re: Mythras Core Book Rule Questions

Postby loz » Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:59 am

nclarke wrote:The Mongoose RQ2 rules and Legend have maxima listed but not a minimum for any characteristic. Human maxima are given as 21 for all six characteristics. Points buy gives each point above 18 having a cost of 2 points.

It might have been this you were thinking of Loz.


No, it wasn't. Pete will correct me if wrong, but for Mythras we work on the assumption that the maximum for humans is 18. 19 or higher is possible through magic. I thought we'd stated that in character creation, and we did have, in an early draft of RQ6, a chart for human and demihumans showing minimums and maximums.
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Re: Mythras Core Book Rule Questions

Postby Matt_E » Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:20 am

Sable Wyvern wrote:
Matt_E wrote:I agree: Neither Mythras nor Mythras Imperative mentions the minimums or maximums for 3d6 or 2d6+6 (or any other set of dice). However, I would not necessarily expect these to be mentioned. I also would not expect directions on how best to use my pencil on my character sheet. ;-) It's very straightforward, and some things are not worth column space, IMO.


Why should anyone immediately assume that minimums and maximums for point buy are the same as for rolling? It seems reasonably likely that they will be, but there could be host of reasons why that's not the case.

As others have mentioned, you'll probably work out (or just decide to assume) that the minimums and maximums match those found when rolling dice, but why make people work to reach this conclusion? The fact is, the omission is an oversight, and it really should be there if the intent is for the rules to be clear and unambiguous.

Keep in mind also, at this point on the first read through, you don't even know if the values the dice provide for you initially are actually minimums or maximums either. Who's to say there isn't a rule coming up that lets you modify them outside of that range?


Well, well... Yes, of course this could be an oversight--of the least important kind, to me. Who gets to decide whether it's an oversight, or a writing choice...? In the interim, Loz has graciously identified this as an actual oversight.

If you read the rest of the rules, I believe you will find nothing suggesting that there is a way to raise a characteristic beyond a species maximum (except some magic). Admittedly, I do expect someone who is reading the rules for the first time to actually read them all the way through, with some patience and faith that perhaps all will be revealed in the fullness of time.

However, in light of the original complaint, I suppose anything less than an explicit declaration like "There is no way to raise a characteristic beyond its species maximum" is an intolerable omission.

One wonders what might be the tolerable level of omission. I am not sure we would have enough paper--or electrons--to list everything that must, or must not, be in the book.

I am sure we can agree that at some level the reader just has to work stuff out to her/his own satisfaction. What we argue about is that level. [shrug]
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