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Important Announcement: Future of RQ6

Re: Important Announcement: Future of RQ6

Postby hkokko » Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:24 pm

I backed it purely out of nostalgia and to get electronic version of Trollpak. I have no intention of playing it - I played it in the 80s, time has moved on. I feel strange that there is not more push for new scenarios or sandboxes. Even though the old RQ2 scenarios were good but it was 80s' and 90s. There should be more interest in new variations, new level of standard - hobby and we has moved on or we should have. Or are we looking at this like people with nostalgic feel - back to the time when were younger, thinner and had more time to play :-) and so want to have those old supplements - I can understand that but there should be more ambition. Personally I think we need a new generation of material - like the Book of Quests and esopecially Monster Island that are bringing us everything we learned in 30-35 years of gaming both in content and style.

I feel really bad about the direction they are taking the combat - it is just so really boring to have the hit/parry/clink sequence forever until the crit. Been there, done that for decades - never again - that is so 80s. Also the way that they communicate about that does not feel respectful for the great work that Loz and Pete have done with RQ6. I hope they turn away from that road.

Action points and special effects and all the nuances of RQ6 are the ones that rekindled my and our group's interest to RQ. Cinematic fights, enough but not too much tactics, lots of variety....

I will probably buy the rule set for inspiration but very likely continue with RQ6.

Somebody asked for stats for old RQ scenarios for Rq6 - you know where to go. If you feel that some stats are missing for any scenario - please inform or it is easy to add yourself. Currently some of the stranger Dorastor beasties and Strangers in Prax are not directly there but for the rest there should be enough... If one really wants to have Muriah and her party as in the books it is to easy to add but currently they can be picked from the lists from representative creatures (Broo Shaman, pig broos, weasel broos)... If there is enough interest I might be tempted to add them directly...

Oh my - a rant - it has been a long week...

Loz and Pete - get us the next supplements and then I would like Pete to return to the glory that is Monster Island and build more of that or something similar that can be dropped anywhere as a sandbox.
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Re: Important Announcement: Future of RQ6

Postby nDervish » Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:45 am

hkokko wrote:I feel really bad about the direction they are taking the combat - it is just so really boring to have the hit/parry/clink sequence forever until the crit.


That was my first reaction, too. Then I started writing a post to that effect on BRP Central, read it a bit more closely, and noticed that they never actually said "clink". The description in Design Notes 2 can be read as "when a crit happens, it's a fight-ender" just as easily as it can be read "nothing happens until someone scores a crit". I still prefer the RQ6 system either way, but "everyone should always be at risk of going down to a crit" is something I agree with more generally.

hkokko wrote:Action points and special effects and all the nuances of RQ6 are the ones that rekindled my and our group's interest to RQ. Cinematic fights, enough but not too much tactics, lots of variety....


Definitely agreed! For mechanically-involved players, I can think of no system I like better than RQ6, primarily due to the dynamism that the Special Effects inject - you generally don't get fights in the typical RPG pattern of "I hit him", "I hit him back", repeat until someone runs out of HP and falls over because SEs will be happening frequently to change things up. I'm still trying to figure out how to make it work without requiring the players to know anything about the rules or dice rolls, though.
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Re: Important Announcement: Future of RQ6

Postby raleel » Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:22 am

Yea, I gotta say, special effects are a big sell for me on RQ6. That and, believe it or not, shields not being stupid. And frankly the experience behind the system, complete with a GM section in the back and lots of pieces of advice that addressed my more wide scale concerns before I even voiced them.

I guess as a long time user of RPG products and a GM regularly, I appreciate experience going into a system.
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Re: Important Announcement: Future of RQ6

Postby Jefferiot » Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:42 am

raleel wrote:. . . That and, believe it or not, shields not being stupid . . .

The little eyes on the swords :? in the inspirational drawings in the late '70's were dumb, but they sold me on DnD, because they made the magic swords look smart. :shock: That was really great, but it was still a pity shields were so dumb, :( relegated to an armor class chart, when they could be so much more. It took a struggle for immersion in a world of fictional myth to create a game that respected shields. RuneQuest was born and today it treats shields better than ever. I'm so glad shields got smart too. 8-)
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Re: Important Announcement: Future of RQ6

Postby Jefferiot » Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:23 am

raleel wrote:Yea, I gotta say, special effects are a big sell for me on RQ6.

Me too. When I used to try to subdue dream dragons in early RuneQuest I usually failed, because often when I finally got a critical impale, the dream dragon died. :oops:

Now when my players subdue dragons, the dragon doesn't die, thanks to special effects, which is really great, because not only do they get a dragon hoard, but they get to use the dragon for a while as well. :mrgreen: Dragons are a pretty handy thing for an adventuring party to have on certain adventures. 8-) I'm so glad for my players that Design Mechanism RuneQuest made it possible to subdue dragons and have smart shields with the same core rules. 8-)

I'm looking forward to seeing the rule in Classic Fantasy for subduing dragons, but my players hit lock the dragon with Press Advantage and Over Extend Opponent, net one or more of its wings, impale it with a heavy pike, lance, scorpion, or ballista, and/or trick the dragon into using its breath weapon until it is tired to lower its Willpower, and then Compel Surrender. :twisted:

I don't let Press Advantage and Over Extend Opponent hit lock giant opponents in more realistic settings, but its fun for the players to allow it in some of the more fantastical settings. :)
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Re: Important Announcement: Future of RQ6

Postby Jusmak » Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:48 pm

While RQ6 worked well with Korantia campaing, I did not find it fully useful in Glorantha. Old battle magic is little too weak. Creatures causing fear in RQIII had also too much power taken away, like Scorpion men (chooce location kill easily, fewer actions). Inability to dodge: man with sword and large shield quite helplessly is either doomed to take full damage from charging berserk delivering overhead blow with great axe or end up prone. There should be sensible possiblity for a trained combatant to sidestep or step back from a blow. That is not 12 metre high giant anyhow. In Glorantha, where I play large animals and monsters are quite common, and there should be sensible way to defend against them as against humans with large weapons.

My vision of Glorantha as a world did not meet with some of rules, but reading this forum some other people have been troubled with same issues and made very good houserules. I ended using skills, characters creation, equipment values from RQIII and added special effects from RQ6 to combat. It works really fine, and I can use old material. A bit still working, if I would devide success like: critical 5 %, special 20% and normal. Special effects like impale, bleed (slash), stun location (crush) would work without opposed rolls on 20 % special success. Fatique builds up too fast on RQ6 to be realistic (first drop 2/3 skill values), but it may be more fun that way. RQIII method of fatigue is far from perfect, not so exciting, boring and has not so often any meaning, but sometimes it could offer enjoyment of slow, running escape.

What comes to RQ2 or 3 being boring, same way also RQ6 or any game can become as boring. You may try characters with 100 % combatskills, endurance, full plate armor. It is not so fast and exciting, you just wait for SE. RQIII works fine with skillvalues between 40-80%, It does not scale well after that, but with 50 % skill character is actually pretty good, veteran or master. That game scale differently.

If this RQ 2.5 edition will follow something similar I already do, then I might get curious about it. Core from RQ2, special effects and maybe opposed skill tests from RQ6 and things are much I like already. Otherwise I do not see any real point just reprinting old material. I bought for nostalgic reasons Advanced Runequest 1987, published by Games Workshop and was quite happy with that. But as somebody already said. I also wish for something new, something distintive, innovative, but sametime carrying Glorantha's characterism. (Glorantha is no Glorantha without a duck shooting with crossbow enhanced with multimissile 4)
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Re: Important Announcement: Future of RQ6

Postby Jefferiot » Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:01 pm

Jusmak wrote:While RQ6 worked well with Korantia campaing, I did not find it fully useful in Glorantha.

Hmm. Why not?

Jusmak wrote:Old battle magic is little too weak.

Do you know about the house rule for Gloranthan progressive magic that was posted in the forums?

Jusmak wrote:Creatures causing fear in RQIII had also too much power taken away, like Scorpion men (chooce location kill easily, fewer actions).

Do you know about the house rule for limiting choose location?

Jusmak wrote:Inability to dodge: man with sword and large shield quite helplessly is either doomed to take full damage from charging berserk delivering overhead blow with great axe or end up prone.

Fighters can use special swords for use with shields. The hilt of the sword can have a guard that is flat in front and have an equal radius pommel and guard for pressing against the large shield to increase it's parry size against huge and enormous weapons. It's called the defender weapon style. I think the Roman gladius and the Viking longsword supported their shields this way.

Look at 5:05 in the following video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0nuOu95uCo&list=PLmcv3NRieywU7-Ii452YLgTaRKMH9uPHW&index=27

Also, what's wrong with the daredevil weapon style or acrobatics to evade without ending up prone?

And of course, charging with a great axe doesn't work, if the defender runs away before he gets there.

Jusmak wrote:There should be sensible possiblity for a trained combatant to sidestep or step back from a blow.

In the cases where the defending swordsman isn't being charged, there are even more ways available to avoid powerful blows.

If he has initiative, a swordsman could just step inside the non-charging attacker's eminent swing to shield range. That would reduce a great axe's damage to 1d3+1 and it's size to medium. Plus the great axeman could no longer use his axe to parry. It is called close range.

Or, again, if the swordsman has initiative, he could just step back out of reach of the non-charging great axeman's eminent swing. It is called open range(withdraw).

Or, the swordsman could step behind cover. The cover could even be an ally of the axeman. It is called evade.

Jusmak wrote:That is not 12 metre high giant anyhow. In Glorantha, where I play large animals and monsters are quite common, and there should be sensible way to defend against them as against humans with large weapons.

The swordsman can use the same methods against a giant as against an axeman. The 12-meter giant's tree branch and kick weapons are so encroached at broadsword or shield attack range that they are reduced to medium or large size for being parried, their damage would be only 1d3+1, and they couldn't be used to parry. The giant would be better off to trample the swordsman instead, which would cause an average damage of 16 hit points to the armor of the swordsman, if the swordsman were to miss his parry. So, it could be enough just to send in swordsmen against a 12-meter giant. (Remember, a successful parry doesn't necessarily represent blocking a blow, but also represents deflecting a blow, stepping off the line of attack, bobbing, weaving, and hence even dodging.)

Using long spears or pikes and pavises, with missles and siege machines behind such lances may have some advantages, over swords and shields, against 12-meter giants. Pavises may be of colossal size to block the colossal tree branch weapons of 12-meter giants. Multi-man pikes could conceivably be unreachable in length to be as long as the tree branch weapons of 12-meter giants.

Also, don't forget the usefulness to suppress blows from giants found in the press advantage and the overextend special effects.
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Re: Important Announcement: Future of RQ6

Postby umbraldragon » Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:28 am

As some of you know, I came late into RQ6 and had never played any of the previous versions. Since then, I've used Korantia (totally love it!), Luther Arkwright (love it too!), Monster Island (after getting to know the system a little better - Love it!) and I have all the RQ6 supplements to date. I won't be using Mythic Britain, but I support DesignMechanism and would gladly support a kickstarter. RQ2 however, doesn't hold any weight for me. So, not interested.

I frequently introduce RQ6 as a first game (and some other games I like, Fiasco being one), to new players by breaking down the character sheet into Cards. I've used my own version of "Batttle Cards" that have the stats and special effects of each weapon specific to that character, also "Spell Cards" that are color coded according to magical discipline. I try to get new players to see the spectrum of play Runequest offers with Passions and Backgrounds offering loads of role playability on one end and how the specificity of combat can be used by wisened warriors to manipulate the outcomes of battles, not just a hack and slash system on the other end. Then when they play other games, they have something significant to compare to and are more able to make choices about what they want from a role playing game, role playing experience and even the culture of the other gamers they invite into their confidence. I am currently running a star frontiers adventure one shot and I keep thinking how much more interesting it would be to use the Luther Arkwright system in place of the one star frontiers uses. I guess I can't say enough about RQ6, it's unique and in my opinion one of the best rpg systems out there, second to none. :ugeek:
Certain mystes aver that the real world has been constructed by the human mind, since our ways are governed by the artificial categories into which we place essentially undifferentiated things, things weaker than our words for them.
- Gene Wolfe
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Re: Important Announcement: Future of RQ6

Postby hkokko » Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:13 am

Regarding one earlier post - we have been running R6 with Glorantha since RQ6 was available - workz just nicely. Used first the progressive folk magic and just tuned the choose location to be on critical plus used "you have to use the skill" to be able to increase it. WorkZ well.
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