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Classic Fantasy - Unearthed Companion

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Classic Fantasy - Unearthed Companion

Postby Dharman » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:44 am

Ok, I'm really pissed off. I have waited classic fantasy for years and I must admit that it's the masterwork I thought it was. But as soon as I realized that the talents, spells, items and so forth listed on the book go actually from rank 0 to rank 3... I can't stand for this. And now the coupe de grace: the second half of the book, UNEARTHED COMPANION, will be released in 2 years.

Here's the point: the product is clearly incomplete. They list various ranks from 0 to 5 and every rank is mentioned through all the book (random encounters included). But, if you want to play them, you have to wait 2 years and buy another book.

Such a terrible joke.
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Re: Classic Fantasy - Unearthed Companion

Postby threedeesix » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:33 am

Dharman wrote:Ok, I'm really pissed off. I have waited classic fantasy for years and I must admit that it's the masterwork I thought it was. But as soon as I realized that the talents, spells, items and so forth listed on the book go actually from rank 0 to rank 3... I can't stand for this. And now the coupe de grace: the second half of the book, UNEARTHED COMPANION, will be released in 2 years.

Here's the point: the product is clearly incomplete. They list various ranks from 0 to 5 and every rank is mentioned through all the book (random encounters included). But, if you want to play them, you have to wait 2 years and buy another book.

Such a terrible joke.


I could have included spells and magic items that covered Ranks 1 to 5. But the page count would have stayed the same. This means that there would have been less included for each Rank then needed for diversity. At mid rank, there wouldn't have been enough spells to cover the number that could be in memory. I guess, I could have included the needed spells and items by omitting the monster chapter. Would that have helped? Maybe not include any magic items. I don't know. I wish I had checked with you on the best course of action before now.

The product in not incomplete. My playesters, playing every week or two for a full year and a half only reached Rank 2. There is plenty of information in the book to keep a campaign going for a long time. And even though the next book is scheduled for a two year release (could be sooner, but I like to ere on the side of caution), I have plans on getting some higher level spells in the players hands sooner.

Sorry for the terrible joke, guess I just have no sense of humor. :roll:

Rod

Oh, and your reading the Wandering Monster Tables wrong. Dungeon level does not correspond to character rank beyond Rank 1. Otherwise there would be no reason to include "deeper" levels in the next book. Oh damn, the next book. :oops:
Last edited by threedeesix on Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Classic Fantasy - Unearthed Companion

Postby Pete » Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:06 am

Sadly there was simply too much material to squeeze into a single book. If we tried to incorporate the additional levels, talents, spells, artefacts and so forth, we were looking at a minimum of 450+ pages of material. Not only does that make the book heavier in terms of postage, but it also hikes up the base price in terms of additional printing costs, extra editorial costs and additional artwork.

Whilst there are a small core of die-hard fans out there who have been begging for this book, I'm fairly sure that even they would baulk at the price increase for an already expensive supplement. You have to understand that Classic Fantasy is something of a gamble for us. We hope that it will draw existing D&D players to at least try the Mythras system and see what they've been missing, thus expanding our customer base. But it might pan out that our gut feelings were completely wrong, the book fails to sell, and Loz and I end up with a product that didn't even pay for its development costs.

So risking the production funds for our next 2-3 books on reproducing the entire PH, DMG and MM in one immense Mythras Tome, is for us, potentially economic suicide.

I'm sorry if you feel that Classic Fantasy in its current format is a "terrible joke". From my our perspective it grants GMs the ability to run characters up to an AD&D equivalent of 8th level (when considering Cleric and Wizard spells). Which is a lot of bang for the buck if considering Red Box only supported play up to 3rd level.

You are of course welcome to feel that this hamstrings the product and makes it incomplete. But the realities of the situation are that, unless it sells like hot cakes and we have a best seller on our hands, you will just have to be patient before we publish the next part. The best thing you could do is actually promote Classic Fantasy with reviews and playtests to draw in new players. If it takes off, then we'd obviously fast-track Unearthed Companion to cater for the increased interest. In the meantime Loz and I have a list of other publications in the pipeline which we'd like to print too, and we only have so much time and money to assign.
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Re: Classic Fantasy - Unearthed Companion

Postby Dharman » Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:09 am

The product in not incomplete. My playesters, playing every week or two for a full year and a half only reached Rank 2. There is plenty of information in the book to keep a campaign going for a long time.


And what if I wanted to introduce an high level npc? No archmages around? What if my epic campaign starts at rank 2 or 3? What if I wanted to convert my current D&D campaign, with players at level 9-15 into a Classic fantasy campaign?

I wrote that I really appreciate your masterwork, but I feel it remains a joke somehow. Don't feel offended for this. I still believe that you're selling half of a product. Indeed, a really good one, but still split in half.

I wish you the very best, so much that I can get the next half soon.
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Re: Classic Fantasy - Unearthed Companion

Postby Pete » Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:30 am

As an aside I must congratulate Rod on condensing the three core AD&D books printed at that tiny 8pt type face (not including the extra Unearthed Arcana material) into a minimalist, yet playable core of 'only' 336 pages. For the reasons I mentioned above we were very strict with page count. What he has produced is a work of art and should be able to handle most of the original TSR scenarios from levels 1-8.

I couldn't have done it. Well done. ;)
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Re: Classic Fantasy - Unearthed Companion

Postby Dharman » Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:39 am

Pete, I know that my words actually are the death of marketing strategy. I just wanted to say that I would have preferred to buy a single, very expensive book, rather than wait 2 years.

What he has produced is a work of art and should be able to handle most of the original TSR scenarios from levels 1-8.

Well, have you written it somewhere? Did I miss it?
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Re: Classic Fantasy - Unearthed Companion

Postby loz » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:15 am

Official Loz Warning.

I wrote that I really appreciate your masterwork, but I feel it remains a joke somehow. Don't feel offended for this.


I'm sorry Dharman, but calling something a joke and then telling the author not to feel offended is simply not on.
We get your disappointment, and I sympathise to a degree, but please refrain from passive-aggressive attacks on the author.

Pete has amply explained the decisions behind the book's content. You might prefer a single, very expensive (and big) book, but unless the company catering to such preferences has immensely deep pockets, it's a sure fire way for that single, very expensive book to be the last book the company ever produces.
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Re: Classic Fantasy - Unearthed Companion

Postby threedeesix » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:32 pm

Pete wrote:As an aside I must congratulate Rod on condensing the three core AD&D books printed at that tiny 8pt type face (not including the extra Unearthed Arcana material) into a minimalist, yet playable core of 'only' 336 pages. For the reasons I mentioned above we were very strict with page count. What he has produced is a work of art and should be able to handle most of the original TSR scenarios from levels 1-8.

I couldn't have done it. Well done. ;)


Thanks Pete, that's high praise indeed and so much appreciated. :)
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Re: Classic Fantasy - Unearthed Companion

Postby soltakss » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:36 pm

Fairly often supplements such as Classic Fantasy cover the basics in one volume and then have a Companion that adds new spells, magic items, expansions and whatever.

This is normal practice and Classic Fantasy is no different.

If you look at the material produced for D&D over the years it would fill many large volumes. Classic Fantasy aims to enable players to use much of that material in a Mythras/RQ framework. I don't think it could ever hope to emulate all the material written for D&D.

In any case, those of us who are long in the tooth RQ-wise are used to taking a supplement and expanding on it, so we would expand beyond Rank 3 ourselves. Perhaps this isn't something you are used to.
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Re: Classic Fantasy - Unearthed Companion

Postby Jefferiot » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:29 pm

soltakss wrote:In any case, those of us who are long in the tooth RQ-wise are used to taking a supplement and expanding on it, so we would expand beyond Rank 3 ourselves.

So, I think I have enough in Classic Fantasy to handle through epic level (level 20+) scenarios made for many kinds of D20 games, of which D&D and AD&D are just two from dozens. :mrgreen:
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